Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
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Nured-deenH
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:24 pm
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
It is a correct action that the Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit or readvise the L/C to another bank for advising after that bank have advised the L/C to beneficiary?
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
I think we need to know from the enquirer more details on this, however it could be that the beneficiary wants to have the L/C available for payment at the counters of his bank or confirmed silently or under UCP 500 by his bank or simply the beneficiary bank is an advice through bank.
It is possible to "re-transmit or re-advise" the L/C through another bank but this is not done without a reason of course. We cannot assume that the beneficiary after having been advised of an L/C that his assets are so liquid that he applies for a second advise merely for the sake of it and incur further expenses.
I have put re-transmit and re-advise in brackets because I not clear of what the enquirer means by them. If for example the beneficiary receives an L/C advised by bank A who
1. Cannot establish the authenticity of the L/C or
2. Is not willing to confirm the L/C
Then the beneficiary may request an amendment to rout the L/C through another bank “B” who is ready to do so. Bank B is an advising bank as per item one and confirming bank (which entails advising) in 2
[edited 8/27/01 1:39:45 PM]
It is possible to "re-transmit or re-advise" the L/C through another bank but this is not done without a reason of course. We cannot assume that the beneficiary after having been advised of an L/C that his assets are so liquid that he applies for a second advise merely for the sake of it and incur further expenses.
I have put re-transmit and re-advise in brackets because I not clear of what the enquirer means by them. If for example the beneficiary receives an L/C advised by bank A who
1. Cannot establish the authenticity of the L/C or
2. Is not willing to confirm the L/C
Then the beneficiary may request an amendment to rout the L/C through another bank “B” who is ready to do so. Bank B is an advising bank as per item one and confirming bank (which entails advising) in 2
[edited 8/27/01 1:39:45 PM]
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larryBacon
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
This may not be as simple a question as it first appears.
Firstly we assume that the L/C has not been advised in error to your bank, and that this has necessitated the use of a second advising bank.
Secondly the issuing bank may not have a correspondent relationship with the 2nd advising bank, which the first advising bank may have.
Thirdly it is not clear if the subsequent instruction to use a second advising bank is by amendment or not.
If the first advising bank is not domiciled in the country of the beneficiary, it is not unusual for another advising bank in the country of the beneficiary to become involved.
These are but some examples and are not meant to be exhaustive.
Firstly we assume that the L/C has not been advised in error to your bank, and that this has necessitated the use of a second advising bank.
Secondly the issuing bank may not have a correspondent relationship with the 2nd advising bank, which the first advising bank may have.
Thirdly it is not clear if the subsequent instruction to use a second advising bank is by amendment or not.
If the first advising bank is not domiciled in the country of the beneficiary, it is not unusual for another advising bank in the country of the beneficiary to become involved.
These are but some examples and are not meant to be exhaustive.
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
We are handicapped due to time differences between Europe and North America. With all the nice things being said by Laurence and Hatem, we have nothing to add this time.
HOMEWORK BEFORE POSTING A QUERY HERE
However, after active involvement in this Discussion Forum so far, we share the opinions from Hatem that the enquirers should respect their own queries more by doing some homework before they put their queries hastily on. We use the word "they" here just to show that we are not pointing our fingers to any particular person but rather to air our feelings and generalised comments to avoid unnecessary mis-understanding.
Before posting their queries, they should have done their homework first, such as :
(1) Start by searching for the ICC Banking Commission opinions first. That is what we have paid the DC Pro subscription for. Why should we pay for a tool in the first place if we do not make good use of it?
(2) Then they should have asked themselves: "Have ALL the material facts and information that are necessary for a precise answer or response been provided already? Have I narrowed down the different scenarios that may make an answer impossible or irrelevant to my case?"
(3) Have I re-read once again the query posted? Do I have careless spelling errors or loose grammar?
THE "GIGO" RULE ALSO WORKS HERE
The famous GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out) Rule works in here too! To every rule, there is always an exception. We find the opinions from Laurence and Hatem are in fact gems. We believe, however, that if more precise facts were provided in the queries themselves, their answers would be crown jewelry.
Please do not forget that whatever one has posted in the Discussion Forum, it would be read by numerous DC practitioners around the world and anything one writes here represents one's image.
This message should not be read as a "lecture" but rather as an enthusiatic advice to show our care for this lovely garden of knowledge, opinions and experiences exchange.
To tell you a secret, we have normally edited our writings here more than 10 times (due to that there is no auto "spell check" avaibable here) to ensure the message has no typo and grammatical errors.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 11/17/02 3:35:02 AM]
HOMEWORK BEFORE POSTING A QUERY HERE
However, after active involvement in this Discussion Forum so far, we share the opinions from Hatem that the enquirers should respect their own queries more by doing some homework before they put their queries hastily on. We use the word "they" here just to show that we are not pointing our fingers to any particular person but rather to air our feelings and generalised comments to avoid unnecessary mis-understanding.
Before posting their queries, they should have done their homework first, such as :
(1) Start by searching for the ICC Banking Commission opinions first. That is what we have paid the DC Pro subscription for. Why should we pay for a tool in the first place if we do not make good use of it?
(2) Then they should have asked themselves: "Have ALL the material facts and information that are necessary for a precise answer or response been provided already? Have I narrowed down the different scenarios that may make an answer impossible or irrelevant to my case?"
(3) Have I re-read once again the query posted? Do I have careless spelling errors or loose grammar?
THE "GIGO" RULE ALSO WORKS HERE
The famous GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out) Rule works in here too! To every rule, there is always an exception. We find the opinions from Laurence and Hatem are in fact gems. We believe, however, that if more precise facts were provided in the queries themselves, their answers would be crown jewelry.
Please do not forget that whatever one has posted in the Discussion Forum, it would be read by numerous DC practitioners around the world and anything one writes here represents one's image.
This message should not be read as a "lecture" but rather as an enthusiatic advice to show our care for this lovely garden of knowledge, opinions and experiences exchange.
To tell you a secret, we have normally edited our writings here more than 10 times (due to that there is no auto "spell check" avaibable here) to ensure the message has no typo and grammatical errors.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 11/17/02 3:35:02 AM]
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
Mr. Lee has provided us with very substantial, however daring, suggestion and I want to add a more daring one.
It is very important for any enquirer, including myself, to realize that once you post your enquiry in DC PRO you should respond, clarify defend, retreat or whatever the case may be. The discussion forum is not bait for others to swallow, or brainstorm or ruminate just for the sake of nothing.
You may wonder why this comments now. Few weeks ago I had a visitor with whom we were discussing certain controversial issues in letters of credit. As I was showing him how on certain issues people agree and disagree and among those issues, some from the DC PRO discussion forum, he said in wonder “ Hatem, how dare you put yourself with these sharks”.
He meant that with all these professionals, “yet big fishes” that do not spare an incorrect opinion one should not expose himself in such a manner.
If some of the inquirers are hesitant to participate and express their views because they have the same feeling, I assure them that only by trial and error the human can learn. No L/C professional was born an L/C professional. May be we were privileged to have been breast-fed more milk than them.
To my visitor I responded with a very popular Arabic verse, which says, “a mosquito may bleed a lions eye”. Just to give balance to his remarks.
This is not targeted to any enquirer, participator or viewer. On the contrary I myself benefited a lot from this lovely garden of knowledge “ to quote Mr. Lee, and this garden would have not been there without those enquirers, participators and viewers.
To my visitor I say
" Sorry, I warned you that I might write your remarks in DC PRO to encourage participants to express their opinions bluntly, and you said to me tha I will not dare to do so"
[edited 8/28/01 2:13:26 PM]
It is very important for any enquirer, including myself, to realize that once you post your enquiry in DC PRO you should respond, clarify defend, retreat or whatever the case may be. The discussion forum is not bait for others to swallow, or brainstorm or ruminate just for the sake of nothing.
You may wonder why this comments now. Few weeks ago I had a visitor with whom we were discussing certain controversial issues in letters of credit. As I was showing him how on certain issues people agree and disagree and among those issues, some from the DC PRO discussion forum, he said in wonder “ Hatem, how dare you put yourself with these sharks”.
He meant that with all these professionals, “yet big fishes” that do not spare an incorrect opinion one should not expose himself in such a manner.
If some of the inquirers are hesitant to participate and express their views because they have the same feeling, I assure them that only by trial and error the human can learn. No L/C professional was born an L/C professional. May be we were privileged to have been breast-fed more milk than them.
To my visitor I responded with a very popular Arabic verse, which says, “a mosquito may bleed a lions eye”. Just to give balance to his remarks.
This is not targeted to any enquirer, participator or viewer. On the contrary I myself benefited a lot from this lovely garden of knowledge “ to quote Mr. Lee, and this garden would have not been there without those enquirers, participators and viewers.
To my visitor I say
" Sorry, I warned you that I might write your remarks in DC PRO to encourage participants to express their opinions bluntly, and you said to me tha I will not dare to do so"
[edited 8/28/01 2:13:26 PM]
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
BOTH HAPPY AND SAD
We are shocked to hear from Hatem that some members see us as sharks for which we are both happy (someone regard us as an "authority", if there is such a thing) and sad (our intent being mis-understood).
WHY WE ARE HERE
In fact, we are one of the most active members here, like Hatem, Jeremy, Laurent, Leo, Abdulkader and others. We enter the Discussion Forum with the intent to exchange opinions which we expect to be different at times (as we are all different in profession, culture, education, value system etc.) on some issues where the ICC Banking Commission has not yet declared a position. Some queries are educational and they can be easily handled by quoting the ICC official opinions.
MORE FACE CAN BE GAINED BY ADMITTING OPENLY OUR MISTAKES
Seeing posting opinions here as a threat or risk is not a correct attitude. Those who have attended our workshops all know that we have no face. When we make a mistake, we will admit it and say sorry "without delay". Our participants would respect us more. For those parts that we do not say sorry, they should be correct. Nobody is perfect. Sometimes when we mean 1 we may say 2. If 10% is wrong or inaccurate, and if the speaker never says sorry, then the participants would not know which 10% is wrong. So they can only try to forget everything in order not to be contaminated.
From our experience, if we meet one person who admits readily his mistakes openly, he should be a very learned person because this should take a lot of self confidence to do it. And knowledge gives him the confidence.
HOMEWORK BEFORE POSTING OPINIONS
One should be aware that things posted here represent oneself and one should take care to verify his/her opinion by doing some homework before one posts it here. Otherwise the Discussion Forum would become a "garbage bin" (though this is unlikely) than a "garden of knowledge and experience".
FREE CONSULTANTS PROVIDED HERE
We see those members commenting on or disagreeing wtih our opinions as our free consultants. We have to thank them for that. There is no harm for heated arguments provided we respect one and other and not to use "verbual brutality" (which is a in-jargon) in order to win (which should not be an objective that we come here for).
FREE TEST GROUND FOR NEW CONCEPTS PROVIDED HERE
To tell you a secret, if our opinions face no challenge (such as from Jeremy who often holds different ideas and this is good) or with unexpected endorsements from other members, we have more confidence that we are at least on the right track, although we may not be 100% correct. We see the Discussion Forum as a test ground for new concepts and revolutionary ideas.
We would like to end with two famous Chinese sayings: "The more you talk, the more chances you would make mistakes". "A hunting dog cannot avoid being killed in the hunting ground and so does a genereal in the battle field". But we are not afraid of that as at the end we all die. Death is nothing to be afraid of provided for a worthy cause, and "within reasonable time".
Mr. Charles del Busto gave us the encouragements: "T. O., Jesus Christ tried to save the world and tell people the truth. You know what they did to Him? They crucified Him!".
Now members should not be afraid to post here.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 11/17/02 3:32:15 AM]
We are shocked to hear from Hatem that some members see us as sharks for which we are both happy (someone regard us as an "authority", if there is such a thing) and sad (our intent being mis-understood).
WHY WE ARE HERE
In fact, we are one of the most active members here, like Hatem, Jeremy, Laurent, Leo, Abdulkader and others. We enter the Discussion Forum with the intent to exchange opinions which we expect to be different at times (as we are all different in profession, culture, education, value system etc.) on some issues where the ICC Banking Commission has not yet declared a position. Some queries are educational and they can be easily handled by quoting the ICC official opinions.
MORE FACE CAN BE GAINED BY ADMITTING OPENLY OUR MISTAKES
Seeing posting opinions here as a threat or risk is not a correct attitude. Those who have attended our workshops all know that we have no face. When we make a mistake, we will admit it and say sorry "without delay". Our participants would respect us more. For those parts that we do not say sorry, they should be correct. Nobody is perfect. Sometimes when we mean 1 we may say 2. If 10% is wrong or inaccurate, and if the speaker never says sorry, then the participants would not know which 10% is wrong. So they can only try to forget everything in order not to be contaminated.
From our experience, if we meet one person who admits readily his mistakes openly, he should be a very learned person because this should take a lot of self confidence to do it. And knowledge gives him the confidence.
HOMEWORK BEFORE POSTING OPINIONS
One should be aware that things posted here represent oneself and one should take care to verify his/her opinion by doing some homework before one posts it here. Otherwise the Discussion Forum would become a "garbage bin" (though this is unlikely) than a "garden of knowledge and experience".
FREE CONSULTANTS PROVIDED HERE
We see those members commenting on or disagreeing wtih our opinions as our free consultants. We have to thank them for that. There is no harm for heated arguments provided we respect one and other and not to use "verbual brutality" (which is a in-jargon) in order to win (which should not be an objective that we come here for).
FREE TEST GROUND FOR NEW CONCEPTS PROVIDED HERE
To tell you a secret, if our opinions face no challenge (such as from Jeremy who often holds different ideas and this is good) or with unexpected endorsements from other members, we have more confidence that we are at least on the right track, although we may not be 100% correct. We see the Discussion Forum as a test ground for new concepts and revolutionary ideas.
We would like to end with two famous Chinese sayings: "The more you talk, the more chances you would make mistakes". "A hunting dog cannot avoid being killed in the hunting ground and so does a genereal in the battle field". But we are not afraid of that as at the end we all die. Death is nothing to be afraid of provided for a worthy cause, and "within reasonable time".
Mr. Charles del Busto gave us the encouragements: "T. O., Jesus Christ tried to save the world and tell people the truth. You know what they did to Him? They crucified Him!".
Now members should not be afraid to post here.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 11/17/02 3:32:15 AM]
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larryBacon
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
My thanks to T.O. Lee for his kind words.
Incidentally, here is a tip for regular contributors to the Forum. When you expect to type a lengthy response, do so in Word where you can edit it or spell check it as you wish. This can be done offline so that you save on 'phone bills and do not tie up DC-PRO connections. Then when you are satisfied with it you can go online to the particular Forum in question and cut/paste.
Hatem's comments on no L/C professional being born a L/C professional is very true. It reminds me of when about thirty years ago I was told to read UCP 220 in order to become the company expert in L/Cs. Things which I would have naively questioned then, I have forgotten by now, but I still value the input of DC-PRO members questioning some concepts that the more experienced of us take for granted.
For example, a couple of years ago, we generally would have agreed on the definition of "original" before such definition was forced by the Bank of China case.
A difference of opinion helps to sharpen the mind.
Incidentally, here is a tip for regular contributors to the Forum. When you expect to type a lengthy response, do so in Word where you can edit it or spell check it as you wish. This can be done offline so that you save on 'phone bills and do not tie up DC-PRO connections. Then when you are satisfied with it you can go online to the particular Forum in question and cut/paste.
Hatem's comments on no L/C professional being born a L/C professional is very true. It reminds me of when about thirty years ago I was told to read UCP 220 in order to become the company expert in L/Cs. Things which I would have naively questioned then, I have forgotten by now, but I still value the input of DC-PRO members questioning some concepts that the more experienced of us take for granted.
For example, a couple of years ago, we generally would have agreed on the definition of "original" before such definition was forced by the Bank of China case.
A difference of opinion helps to sharpen the mind.
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
Dear Laurence, by "UCP 220", do you actually mean UCP 222, as we do not think you are so old to start with UCP 82. "Spelling check" software has its limit and it cannot correct typo such as this.
We hope you mean UCP 290 as that would make you look younger in this Forum.
T. O.
[edited 8/28/01 8:49:15 PM]
We hope you mean UCP 290 as that would make you look younger in this Forum.
T. O.
[edited 8/28/01 8:49:15 PM]
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
I apologize that I have caused some inconvenience to my friends in DC PRO. My intention of telling what my visitor expressed to me is to defeat such approach in thinking.
Anyway friends, lets row on, we know that he who makes no mistakes makes nothing. We should water, attend and care for this “lovely garden of knowledge” as we do care for ourselves no matter what are the hindrances.
By the way, my visitor is not a permanent member in DC PRO)
[edited 8/29/01 6:49:03 AM]
Anyway friends, lets row on, we know that he who makes no mistakes makes nothing. We should water, attend and care for this “lovely garden of knowledge” as we do care for ourselves no matter what are the hindrances.
By the way, my visitor is not a permanent member in DC PRO)
[edited 8/29/01 6:49:03 AM]
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larryBacon
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm
Issuing Bank request the advising bank to transmit
My thanks to T.O. Lee for spotting the typographical error which should have read UCP 222 instead of UCP 220.
I have no difficulty with acknowledging my age. I have earned each of my grey hairs !
I have no difficulty with acknowledging my age. I have earned each of my grey hairs !