Jeremy and I have had an interesting debate on the limitations or otherwise of documents titled Bills of Lading.
This brings to mind an earlier point in my career when I was chartering aircraft for freight. If you were approached by your customer to issue a DC dealing with consignments sent by air under a charter party, would you advise issuing such with Article 25 or 27 in mind, citing respectively B/L or AWB ?
Laurence
Air Charter Party
-
larryBacon
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm
Air Charter Party
Laurence,
We too have air-chartering experience.
At that time I was working with a state agent of Sabah State of Malaysia in Hong Kong. The Finance Minister in Kota Kinabalu came back late from foreign meetings and the Independence Day of Malaysia was near. So we had to deliver the decoration materials from Hong Kong to Kota Kinabalu by air chartering, a Douglas DC-6 plane. Our contract of air carriage was an air charter party.
I acted as a "supercargo" (the one who escorted the cargoes staying on board for the whole journey). Following the advice of the charter company, I paid about HKD500 tips to the workers who stowed the cargoes on board at the Kai Tak airport. Otherwise they would stow the cargoes across the width of the aircraft, and I, sitting in the flight cabin with the pilots, could not go to the toilet at the rear part of the aircraft as there was no aisle left for such purpose.
So charter party does not limit to marine or port-to-port. It also includes airport–to-airport.
If the DC says “charter party”, we should look at other data content in the DC to determine whether Article 25 or 27 is to be used.
The merchandise would also tell us. For example, nobody will ship by sea Rolex watches, jewellery and other expensive items. We once even air shipped currency notes.
www.tolee.com
[edited 7/15/02 9:30:51 PM]
We too have air-chartering experience.
At that time I was working with a state agent of Sabah State of Malaysia in Hong Kong. The Finance Minister in Kota Kinabalu came back late from foreign meetings and the Independence Day of Malaysia was near. So we had to deliver the decoration materials from Hong Kong to Kota Kinabalu by air chartering, a Douglas DC-6 plane. Our contract of air carriage was an air charter party.
I acted as a "supercargo" (the one who escorted the cargoes staying on board for the whole journey). Following the advice of the charter company, I paid about HKD500 tips to the workers who stowed the cargoes on board at the Kai Tak airport. Otherwise they would stow the cargoes across the width of the aircraft, and I, sitting in the flight cabin with the pilots, could not go to the toilet at the rear part of the aircraft as there was no aisle left for such purpose.
So charter party does not limit to marine or port-to-port. It also includes airport–to-airport.
If the DC says “charter party”, we should look at other data content in the DC to determine whether Article 25 or 27 is to be used.
The merchandise would also tell us. For example, nobody will ship by sea Rolex watches, jewellery and other expensive items. We once even air shipped currency notes.
www.tolee.com
[edited 7/15/02 9:30:51 PM]
-
larryBacon
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm
Air Charter Party
T. O.,
I have shipped expensive items by sea. I will not go into the details because of security/confidentiality, but there were good reasons for doing so.
Laurence
I have shipped expensive items by sea. I will not go into the details because of security/confidentiality, but there were good reasons for doing so.
Laurence
-
PGauntlett
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:25 pm
Air Charter Party
In the real world I can't ever envisage applying Art 25 to an air shipment.
Air Charter Party
Me neither.
-
DimitriScoufaridis
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:17 pm
Air Charter Party
Art. 25 refers to the Charter Party Bill of Lading. Also p. 74 of the DC’s UCP 500 & 400 Compared talks about “the hiring of the vessel or part of it”, i.e. it does not refer to the hiring of airplanes; therefore, in my opinion Art. 27 should apply.
Dimitri
Dimitri
Air Charter Party
Laurence,
RULES ARE MADE FOR BREAKING – TO EACH RULE THERE IS ALWAYS AN EXCEPTION
To every rule, there is always an exception. And rules are made for breaking. So we are not surprised that you shipped expensive merchandise by sea.
For example, for an expensive machine which cannot be knocked down into smaller parts, and it is also too large or heavy even for the Boeing cargo Jumbo Jet, or the US Hercules or USSR equivalent, we have no alternative but to ship it by sea. To give an example, Hong Kong and Taiwan export a lot of Chinese junks (pleasure yachts) by putting them into cradles on board ocean cargo ships. There is a very famous DC fraud case where the merchandise is a Taiwan pleasure boat shipped to Singapore.
Dimitri,
DON’T TRY TO SEE EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD WITH ONLY A BANKER’S VIEW.
Please understand that the ICC Banking Commission publications are mostly written by bankers. So these publications only deal with the issues from a banker's perspective, even for a non-banking issue, such as a transport issue in front of us that should be resolved by referring to the appropriate maritime trade practices, in this case being air transport.
If a banker insists to stick to only the banker's view in determination of discrepancies in a transport document, he or she may lose in a court of law, that may refer to other non-banking perspectives as well, which are more appropriate for the issues under dispute.
www.tolee.com
[edited 7/17/02 3:41:06 PM]
RULES ARE MADE FOR BREAKING – TO EACH RULE THERE IS ALWAYS AN EXCEPTION
To every rule, there is always an exception. And rules are made for breaking. So we are not surprised that you shipped expensive merchandise by sea.
For example, for an expensive machine which cannot be knocked down into smaller parts, and it is also too large or heavy even for the Boeing cargo Jumbo Jet, or the US Hercules or USSR equivalent, we have no alternative but to ship it by sea. To give an example, Hong Kong and Taiwan export a lot of Chinese junks (pleasure yachts) by putting them into cradles on board ocean cargo ships. There is a very famous DC fraud case where the merchandise is a Taiwan pleasure boat shipped to Singapore.
Dimitri,
DON’T TRY TO SEE EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD WITH ONLY A BANKER’S VIEW.
Please understand that the ICC Banking Commission publications are mostly written by bankers. So these publications only deal with the issues from a banker's perspective, even for a non-banking issue, such as a transport issue in front of us that should be resolved by referring to the appropriate maritime trade practices, in this case being air transport.
If a banker insists to stick to only the banker's view in determination of discrepancies in a transport document, he or she may lose in a court of law, that may refer to other non-banking perspectives as well, which are more appropriate for the issues under dispute.
www.tolee.com
[edited 7/17/02 3:41:06 PM]
-
DimitriScoufaridis
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:17 pm
Air Charter Party
T.O. Lee,
We’ve got two articles here, one is talking about sea shipments and the other is for air shipments, i.e. the issue is not related to a banker’s point of view. If we need to have an article in place specifically referring to air-chartering, then this is another issue. Until then, the question that needs to be answered is: Is it allowed to use an article related to sea shipments only, for air transport? What could be consequences for doing so?
Dimitri
We’ve got two articles here, one is talking about sea shipments and the other is for air shipments, i.e. the issue is not related to a banker’s point of view. If we need to have an article in place specifically referring to air-chartering, then this is another issue. Until then, the question that needs to be answered is: Is it allowed to use an article related to sea shipments only, for air transport? What could be consequences for doing so?
Dimitri
Air Charter Party
Dimitri,
Please note two points:
(1) If a banker receives an air charter party, as guided by the data content, flight No. names of airport of departure and arrival, IATA, etc. then can the banker still insist to examine with Article 25, which is for charter party bill of lading? "Bankers should not act like robots and documents have to be examined with common sense" said by the "father" of letter of credit - the late Bernard S. Wheble.
(2) As we have pointed out before, the UCP was drafted mainly by bankers who might not be able to keep up with the latest development in transports. That is also one of the main reasons for updating the UCP from time to time. Since air charter party is seldom used, may be that is the reason why it is not included in the UCP 500. But this does not mean that a banker has to use Article 25 to examine an air charter party. If he does, prepared to meet the beneficiary in court! And we are sure that the case would be won by the beneficiary. We do not need to ask Jeremy for any precedent cases. Afterall this is only common sense.
www.tolee.com
[edited 7/18/02 4:32:05 PM]
Please note two points:
(1) If a banker receives an air charter party, as guided by the data content, flight No. names of airport of departure and arrival, IATA, etc. then can the banker still insist to examine with Article 25, which is for charter party bill of lading? "Bankers should not act like robots and documents have to be examined with common sense" said by the "father" of letter of credit - the late Bernard S. Wheble.
(2) As we have pointed out before, the UCP was drafted mainly by bankers who might not be able to keep up with the latest development in transports. That is also one of the main reasons for updating the UCP from time to time. Since air charter party is seldom used, may be that is the reason why it is not included in the UCP 500. But this does not mean that a banker has to use Article 25 to examine an air charter party. If he does, prepared to meet the beneficiary in court! And we are sure that the case would be won by the beneficiary. We do not need to ask Jeremy for any precedent cases. Afterall this is only common sense.
www.tolee.com
[edited 7/18/02 4:32:05 PM]
-
larryBacon
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm
Air Charter Party
Dimitri,
I would like to take the role here of agent provocateur by suggesting that :
1. Article 25 does not confine B/Ls issued under this Article to shipment by sea. In fact there is no mention of shipment by sea.
2. The word "vessel" can have a number of meanings, including "any object used as a container". Therefore references to "vessel" in Article 25 does not confine its meaning to ships etc.
What transport document is appropriate for goods shipped by hovercraft ? This craft, in motion, does not touch the earth or sea, yet travels across them by propelling itself vertically under a jet of air (like the Harrier aircraft) and horizontally by means of large fans (like craft used in the Everglades).
I must leave this conundrum with you as I will be out of the country for a week starting after to-day.
Laurence
I would like to take the role here of agent provocateur by suggesting that :
1. Article 25 does not confine B/Ls issued under this Article to shipment by sea. In fact there is no mention of shipment by sea.
2. The word "vessel" can have a number of meanings, including "any object used as a container". Therefore references to "vessel" in Article 25 does not confine its meaning to ships etc.
What transport document is appropriate for goods shipped by hovercraft ? This craft, in motion, does not touch the earth or sea, yet travels across them by propelling itself vertically under a jet of air (like the Harrier aircraft) and horizontally by means of large fans (like craft used in the Everglades).
I must leave this conundrum with you as I will be out of the country for a week starting after to-day.
Laurence