L/C issued in English supposes presentation of docs in English. But beneficiary presented docs in Russian and we, acting as Nominated Bank, were able to check the documents in Russian.
Can we announce documents to the Issuing Bank as presented in strict conformity with the L/C terms and claim payment?
Language of documents
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SaltanatIztleuova
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:27 pm
Language of documents
You raise an interesting question. Personally speaking and without any responsibility/liability on my part:
1. I am not aware of any express UCP500 requirement that documents have to be presented in the language of the credit.
2. There does not seem to be a directly relevant ICC opinion on the subject.
3. Whether or not a court of law would hold that it is an implied requirement of a credit, in the absence of an express statement, that documents must be in the language of the credit I would not like to say for certain. However, I would not be surprised if a court took the view that if documents had to be in the language of the credit (only) the issuing bank should expressly say so, given how easy it is to include such a provision in a credit, and thus held that if the issuing bank does not, any language is acceptable. Is anyone aware of any court decisions or other relevant authority on this subject?
Sorry I cannot be of more help. Perhaps someone else can?
1. I am not aware of any express UCP500 requirement that documents have to be presented in the language of the credit.
2. There does not seem to be a directly relevant ICC opinion on the subject.
3. Whether or not a court of law would hold that it is an implied requirement of a credit, in the absence of an express statement, that documents must be in the language of the credit I would not like to say for certain. However, I would not be surprised if a court took the view that if documents had to be in the language of the credit (only) the issuing bank should expressly say so, given how easy it is to include such a provision in a credit, and thus held that if the issuing bank does not, any language is acceptable. Is anyone aware of any court decisions or other relevant authority on this subject?
Sorry I cannot be of more help. Perhaps someone else can?
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PGauntlett
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:25 pm
Language of documents
This is a tricky one but I believe that docs should be in the language of the l/c unless otherwise stated unless the foreign language expression is generally understood internationally.
As an illustration, a while ago I intervened in a dispute between two international banks based in London whereby one of them wanted to reject a b/l signed by 'Le Capitain' instead of 'The Master'. Common sense did not prevail but I was able to send the rejecting bank a copy of the French version of UCP which obviously uses the words 'Le Capitain' in the applicable Article. The rejecting bank, duly embarrassed, accepted the docs.
As an illustration, a while ago I intervened in a dispute between two international banks based in London whereby one of them wanted to reject a b/l signed by 'Le Capitain' instead of 'The Master'. Common sense did not prevail but I was able to send the rejecting bank a copy of the French version of UCP which obviously uses the words 'Le Capitain' in the applicable Article. The rejecting bank, duly embarrassed, accepted the docs.
Language of documents
I would certainly be more than happy if the courts shared Phil's views.
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AbdulkaderBazara
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:15 pm
Language of documents
I would agree with PGauntlett despite the fact that there is no clear indication in the UCP that documents presented must be in the language of the credit for a simple reason that the issuing bank would usually not be able to check the documents due to the language barrier. In addition, since some of the documents called in the credit are actually dictated by regulatory bodies of some countries, it would be difficult for the buyer to clear the goods unless the documents are translated into the language of the credit. However, here in the Middle East though the credits are usually issued in English Language, we do accept documents presented in Arabic for the basic reason that Arabic Language is usually understood by all parties involved. Banks that would not want to go into the difficulties associated with translation of the documents or interpretation of certain terms would clearly state in the credit that documents must be presented in the English Language.
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
Language of documents
My views are as follows:
1. From practical point of view and commonsense the documents should have been presented in English language for many reasons, of them are the letter of credit did not come out of the blue, it came from a negotiation process that has involved a number of correspondence, a quotation, a Performa invoice, a number of phone calls, and ultimately a contract of sale and the a payment instrument; L/C. Secondly the payment instrument was issued in English therefore implying that documents to be presented for utilization is to be written in the language of that instrument. This is a typical situation in cross-border deals. (Assuming both parties do not understand each other in one language)
WHAT IF ALL THE L/C PRE-ISSUANCE CORRESPONDENCE WERE IN RUSSIAN AND THE L/C ISSUED IN ENGLISH?
2. Although from “a practical point of view” a beneficiary residing in Egypt may issue some documents in Arabic because he knows that the nominated bank will be able to understand the language of his documents. The same thing may apply to a beneficiary having received an L/C from a bank located in a French speaking region in Canada, may as well issue documents in French and present them for his local bank in Paris for ultimate dispatch to the Canadian bank, although the L/C is in English, the advice is in English, the amendments are in English!!!!
3. I agree with JSMITH that the issue is outside the scope of UCP as there is no article to provision for such commonsense requirement.
4. From my banking experience – do not be taken aback – I have encountered advises of refusals stating among other discrepancies that documents issued in Arabic and English language contrary to what the credit required “ DOCUMENTS TO BE ISSUED IN ENGLISH LANGUAGE ONLY” although from commonsense the document COULD have been presented to Arabic speaking authorities whose English may not exceed level (ONE) as per the placement test of the British council. In one instance I have seen documents rejected because some documents presented were issued in two foreign languages; Italian and English.
5. Most of the Middle East banks if not all, specifically require that documents must be issued in English language, even if L/Cs are issued to Arabic speaking countries. It would be risky for the nominated bank to negotiate without recourse documents issued in Arabic if the checker at the other end is so fanatic about the doctrine of “strict compliance” or at that moment had an urging need to reject documents for a reason whatsoever.
Therefore to avoid any troubles better to stipulate in the L/C that documents to be issued in English.
1. From practical point of view and commonsense the documents should have been presented in English language for many reasons, of them are the letter of credit did not come out of the blue, it came from a negotiation process that has involved a number of correspondence, a quotation, a Performa invoice, a number of phone calls, and ultimately a contract of sale and the a payment instrument; L/C. Secondly the payment instrument was issued in English therefore implying that documents to be presented for utilization is to be written in the language of that instrument. This is a typical situation in cross-border deals. (Assuming both parties do not understand each other in one language)
WHAT IF ALL THE L/C PRE-ISSUANCE CORRESPONDENCE WERE IN RUSSIAN AND THE L/C ISSUED IN ENGLISH?
2. Although from “a practical point of view” a beneficiary residing in Egypt may issue some documents in Arabic because he knows that the nominated bank will be able to understand the language of his documents. The same thing may apply to a beneficiary having received an L/C from a bank located in a French speaking region in Canada, may as well issue documents in French and present them for his local bank in Paris for ultimate dispatch to the Canadian bank, although the L/C is in English, the advice is in English, the amendments are in English!!!!
3. I agree with JSMITH that the issue is outside the scope of UCP as there is no article to provision for such commonsense requirement.
4. From my banking experience – do not be taken aback – I have encountered advises of refusals stating among other discrepancies that documents issued in Arabic and English language contrary to what the credit required “ DOCUMENTS TO BE ISSUED IN ENGLISH LANGUAGE ONLY” although from commonsense the document COULD have been presented to Arabic speaking authorities whose English may not exceed level (ONE) as per the placement test of the British council. In one instance I have seen documents rejected because some documents presented were issued in two foreign languages; Italian and English.
5. Most of the Middle East banks if not all, specifically require that documents must be issued in English language, even if L/Cs are issued to Arabic speaking countries. It would be risky for the nominated bank to negotiate without recourse documents issued in Arabic if the checker at the other end is so fanatic about the doctrine of “strict compliance” or at that moment had an urging need to reject documents for a reason whatsoever.
Therefore to avoid any troubles better to stipulate in the L/C that documents to be issued in English.
Language of documents
According to the survey result of the United Nations, when e commerce takes over in the future, about twenty years from now, it is estimated that there would be less than twenty languages left being written or spoken at that time and English, although not an artistic and poetic language like French and Chinese, will be the main trade, interent and spoken language.
http://www.tolee.com
http://www.tolee.com
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PGauntlett
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:25 pm
Language of documents
As posted by T.O.Lee:
English, although not an artistic and poetic language like French and Chinese
-----------------
Shakespeare, Keats, Wordsworth, Lennon & McCartney, Gray Sinclair........
English, although not an artistic and poetic language like French and Chinese
-----------------
Shakespeare, Keats, Wordsworth, Lennon & McCartney, Gray Sinclair........
Language of documents
Dear Mr. PGauntlett,
We are just quoting generalised comments from others picked up from articles and cocktail conversations. Please do not be so sensitive.
If you understand the classical Chinese poems, then you would know what we mean.
TRIBUTE TO OUR OLD FRIEND MR. GRAY SINCLAIR
Since you mention the name "Gray Sinclair" in your posting, it reminds us of the other Gray Sinclair, the one we know, being an English DC expert, a good friend of the late Bernard Wheble. So we would quote a poem from W. B. Yeats to pay tribute to Mr. Gray Sinclair, although the poem appears to refer to a beautiful lady.
"The Lover Pleads with His Friend for Old Friends
Though you are in your shining days,
Voices among the crowd
And new friends busy with your praise,
Be not unkind or proud,
But think about old friends the most;
Time's bitter flood will rise,
Your beauty perish and be lost
For all eyes but these eyes".
By the way, when we first met Hatem in the Jeddah workshops last month, he told us that he studied English literature in a university in England. We expect him to make some good comments here.
http://www.tolee.com
[edited 11/4/01 4:18:44 AM]
We are just quoting generalised comments from others picked up from articles and cocktail conversations. Please do not be so sensitive.
If you understand the classical Chinese poems, then you would know what we mean.
TRIBUTE TO OUR OLD FRIEND MR. GRAY SINCLAIR
Since you mention the name "Gray Sinclair" in your posting, it reminds us of the other Gray Sinclair, the one we know, being an English DC expert, a good friend of the late Bernard Wheble. So we would quote a poem from W. B. Yeats to pay tribute to Mr. Gray Sinclair, although the poem appears to refer to a beautiful lady.
"The Lover Pleads with His Friend for Old Friends
Though you are in your shining days,
Voices among the crowd
And new friends busy with your praise,
Be not unkind or proud,
But think about old friends the most;
Time's bitter flood will rise,
Your beauty perish and be lost
For all eyes but these eyes".
By the way, when we first met Hatem in the Jeddah workshops last month, he told us that he studied English literature in a university in England. We expect him to make some good comments here.
http://www.tolee.com
[edited 11/4/01 4:18:44 AM]
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
Language of documents
“A gain he speaks in thunder and in fire!
Thunder of thought, & flame of fierce desire:
Even from the depths of hell his voice I hear
Within the unfathom’d caverns of my ear.
Therefore I print; no vain my types shall be:
Heaven earth & hell henceforth shall live in harmony.”
William Blake
Speaking of Yeats please note that W. B Yeats is the eldest son of the painter J.B. Yeats. W. B. Yeats was born in Dublin 1865 and I was borne in Palestine 1965 a hundred years later. Yeats is known to have followed the symbolism in his literary works although he his works is largely marked with hard-edge and realistic features. He was awarded noble prize in 1923 and died in 1939 in France but buried in Sligo, Ireland.
The poem that Mr. Lee mentioned of Yeats begets my thought on Yeats new tone of poetry when his sweetheart Maud Gonne got married to another man and Yeats was deeply hurt by that. Now he could merely record memories and old hopes, paying tribute to old friends, beauty and remorse love. In a number of poems Yeats indicates topical affairs and his own beliefs, as well as recording the emptiness of his passion. Of course love was not the only reason as Yeats had become disillusioned with politics and politicians.
Read this thoroughly:
Never Give All The Heart
Never give all the heart, for love
Will hardly seem worth thinking of
To passionate women if it seem
Certain, and they never dream
That it fades out from kiss to kiss;
For everything that’s lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.
O never give the heart outright,
For they, for all smooth lips can say,
Have given their hearts up to the play.
And who could play it well enough
If deaf and dumb and blind with love?
He that made this knows all the cost,
For he gave all his heart and lost.
O Do Not Love Too Long
SWEETHEART, do not love too long:
I love long and long,
And grew to be out of fashion
Like and old song.
All through the years of our youth
Neither could have known
Their own thought from the other’s,
We were so much at one.
But O, in a minute she changed –
O do not love too long,
Or you will grow out of fashion
Like an old song.
Among other poets that I adore is John Donne, who bestowed a mystical touch to love affairs with an interesting concept of sexual metaphysics; that the really valid and complete relationship between men and women fuse theirs souls into a complete whole, and that they become a microcosm of the living world.
“You, to whom love was peace, that now is rage;
Who did the whole world’s soul contract, and drove
Into the glasses of your eyes
(So made such mirrors, and such spies,
That they did all to you epitomize,)
Countries, towns, courts: beg from above
A pattern of your love!”
The Canonization
Gibran Khalil Gibran, although coming after three hundred years of John Donne is another great story of poetic success. If one goes through his poems then you will discover that it brings to mind Donne’s poems. Gibran’s poetry covers the gamut of emotions of love in which the woman is ethereally idealized and placed beyond the reach of the ordinary mortals in addition to courtly love:
“Love lies in the soul alone,
Not in the body, and like wine
Should stimulate our better self
To welcome gifts of Live Divine.”
The Prophet
Another great poet of England whom I like is William Wordsworth, the Poet of Nature.
One impulse from a vernal wood
May teach you more of man,
Of moral evil and of good,
Than all the sags can.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings;
Our meddling intellect
Misshapes the beauteous forms of things-
We murder to dissect.
However the most haunting love poem is “Prophyria’s Lover” written by Robert Browning. The poem, which is written in a dramatic monologue style, is a study in abnormal psychology of mad lover. Anybody in mad love with a girl should read that poem.
From contemporary literature a best selling book really inspired me and perhaps shaped my life. The book is “ Notes To My Self, My struggle to become a person, written by Huge Prather. Although the note may sound like axioms, they are extremely important as they question the helpfulness of self-evident truths.
Here are some excerpts:
“Next time I will …”
“From now on I will …”
- What makes me think I am wiser today
than I will be tomorrow?
---
Unless I accept my faults, I will
Unquestionably doubt my virtues.
---
It is 9:58 and it is now. Tomorrow at 3:00 it will be now. On my deathbed it will still be now. Since it will always be now, learning to respond to now is the only thing there is to learn.
---
If I feel compelled to answer every question,
I am the one compelling me.
---
For communication to have meaning it must have a life. It must transcend “you and me” and become “us.” If I truly communicate, I see in you a life that is not me and partake of it. And you see and partake of me. In a small way we then grow out of our old selves and become something new. To have this kind of sharing I cannot enter a conversation clutching myself. I must enter it with loose boundaries. I must give myself to the relationship, and be willing to be what grows out of it.
----------------------------------------
Mr. Lee, you extracted the bulb
Hatem Shehab
MA Eng. Lit.
[edited 11/4/01 12:59:10 PM]
Thunder of thought, & flame of fierce desire:
Even from the depths of hell his voice I hear
Within the unfathom’d caverns of my ear.
Therefore I print; no vain my types shall be:
Heaven earth & hell henceforth shall live in harmony.”
William Blake
Speaking of Yeats please note that W. B Yeats is the eldest son of the painter J.B. Yeats. W. B. Yeats was born in Dublin 1865 and I was borne in Palestine 1965 a hundred years later. Yeats is known to have followed the symbolism in his literary works although he his works is largely marked with hard-edge and realistic features. He was awarded noble prize in 1923 and died in 1939 in France but buried in Sligo, Ireland.
The poem that Mr. Lee mentioned of Yeats begets my thought on Yeats new tone of poetry when his sweetheart Maud Gonne got married to another man and Yeats was deeply hurt by that. Now he could merely record memories and old hopes, paying tribute to old friends, beauty and remorse love. In a number of poems Yeats indicates topical affairs and his own beliefs, as well as recording the emptiness of his passion. Of course love was not the only reason as Yeats had become disillusioned with politics and politicians.
Read this thoroughly:
Never Give All The Heart
Never give all the heart, for love
Will hardly seem worth thinking of
To passionate women if it seem
Certain, and they never dream
That it fades out from kiss to kiss;
For everything that’s lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.
O never give the heart outright,
For they, for all smooth lips can say,
Have given their hearts up to the play.
And who could play it well enough
If deaf and dumb and blind with love?
He that made this knows all the cost,
For he gave all his heart and lost.
O Do Not Love Too Long
SWEETHEART, do not love too long:
I love long and long,
And grew to be out of fashion
Like and old song.
All through the years of our youth
Neither could have known
Their own thought from the other’s,
We were so much at one.
But O, in a minute she changed –
O do not love too long,
Or you will grow out of fashion
Like an old song.
Among other poets that I adore is John Donne, who bestowed a mystical touch to love affairs with an interesting concept of sexual metaphysics; that the really valid and complete relationship between men and women fuse theirs souls into a complete whole, and that they become a microcosm of the living world.
“You, to whom love was peace, that now is rage;
Who did the whole world’s soul contract, and drove
Into the glasses of your eyes
(So made such mirrors, and such spies,
That they did all to you epitomize,)
Countries, towns, courts: beg from above
A pattern of your love!”
The Canonization
Gibran Khalil Gibran, although coming after three hundred years of John Donne is another great story of poetic success. If one goes through his poems then you will discover that it brings to mind Donne’s poems. Gibran’s poetry covers the gamut of emotions of love in which the woman is ethereally idealized and placed beyond the reach of the ordinary mortals in addition to courtly love:
“Love lies in the soul alone,
Not in the body, and like wine
Should stimulate our better self
To welcome gifts of Live Divine.”
The Prophet
Another great poet of England whom I like is William Wordsworth, the Poet of Nature.
One impulse from a vernal wood
May teach you more of man,
Of moral evil and of good,
Than all the sags can.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings;
Our meddling intellect
Misshapes the beauteous forms of things-
We murder to dissect.
However the most haunting love poem is “Prophyria’s Lover” written by Robert Browning. The poem, which is written in a dramatic monologue style, is a study in abnormal psychology of mad lover. Anybody in mad love with a girl should read that poem.
From contemporary literature a best selling book really inspired me and perhaps shaped my life. The book is “ Notes To My Self, My struggle to become a person, written by Huge Prather. Although the note may sound like axioms, they are extremely important as they question the helpfulness of self-evident truths.
Here are some excerpts:
“Next time I will …”
“From now on I will …”
- What makes me think I am wiser today
than I will be tomorrow?
---
Unless I accept my faults, I will
Unquestionably doubt my virtues.
---
It is 9:58 and it is now. Tomorrow at 3:00 it will be now. On my deathbed it will still be now. Since it will always be now, learning to respond to now is the only thing there is to learn.
---
If I feel compelled to answer every question,
I am the one compelling me.
---
For communication to have meaning it must have a life. It must transcend “you and me” and become “us.” If I truly communicate, I see in you a life that is not me and partake of it. And you see and partake of me. In a small way we then grow out of our old selves and become something new. To have this kind of sharing I cannot enter a conversation clutching myself. I must enter it with loose boundaries. I must give myself to the relationship, and be willing to be what grows out of it.
----------------------------------------
Mr. Lee, you extracted the bulb
Hatem Shehab
MA Eng. Lit.
[edited 11/4/01 12:59:10 PM]