Thanks for your further contributions. My own feeling is that 30(c) is absolute and a drawing for less than 95% is automatically discrepant. However, I see that there is not unanimous agreement here on the question. I raised it as an experienced document checker, whose views I respect, suggested to me that para 60 overrode 30(c). I am still not 100% sure of the position.
Anyway, Glenn, if my understanding is correct (and as you can see I am not sure it is), the discrepancy would be something like 'drawing for less than permitted by 40(c)'.
Best regards, Jeremy
[edited 6/24/2010 2:53:31 PM]
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
Glenn,
Simply, that your amount claimed does not comply with art. 30c:"Even when partial shipments are not allowed, a tolerance not to EXCEED 5% LESS than the amount of the credit is allowed..." and par. 66
Unlike the experienced document checker I think that 60 does not override 30 and even has nothing to do with it.
I would like to have the final word on this matter anyway and if I am wrong, I will send you a bottle of one of our famous swiss wines.
Jeremy.
if you are not sure, what will become of us?
Best regards
Daniel
Simply, that your amount claimed does not comply with art. 30c:"Even when partial shipments are not allowed, a tolerance not to EXCEED 5% LESS than the amount of the credit is allowed..." and par. 66
Unlike the experienced document checker I think that 60 does not override 30 and even has nothing to do with it.
I would like to have the final word on this matter anyway and if I am wrong, I will send you a bottle of one of our famous swiss wines.
Jeremy.
if you are not sure, what will become of us?
Best regards
Daniel
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GlennRansier_
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
Daniel, I am happy to accept any wine sent my way. I had done some UCP 600 presentations in Switzerland and visited a few other times making sure to review a few wineries that overlooked Lake Geneva/Leman and so I would be happy to accept a bottle of white. 
I am attaching a UCP500 opinion that relates to this topic:
From Opinion R419: “It can be seen that a bank is under no obligation to accept an invoice for an amount which is greater than the L/C amount, but if the nominated bank elects to do so it binds all other parties, provided the settlement to the beneficiary is no greater than the value of the credit. It would be expected that a nominated bank would accept such invoices. An invoice that shows a deduction due to a 'discount' being granted would not be a reason, in itself, to reject the documents.”
In the scenario Jeremy has put forth, ISBP para. 60 must rule. UCP Article 30c. discusses an amount “tolerance” should an LC/invoice be silent. In example, you have a LC, $100.00 10 chairs CIF Incoterms 2000. The freight and ins. costs were estimated/rounded to nearest dollar so the actual invoice presented states Chairs $90.00 + OF $5.00 + I $1.00 total $96.00. Article 30c. allows this tolerance, as the amount is within 5% but prohibits it if outside the 5% tolerance. A “discount” or “rebate” is separate and distinct from a tolerance and as such ISBP paragraph 60 must be applied. Tolerance is defined as an “allowance” whereas a rebate is a “deduction or discount” and the later are not prohibited by UCP.
I am attaching a UCP500 opinion that relates to this topic:
From Opinion R419: “It can be seen that a bank is under no obligation to accept an invoice for an amount which is greater than the L/C amount, but if the nominated bank elects to do so it binds all other parties, provided the settlement to the beneficiary is no greater than the value of the credit. It would be expected that a nominated bank would accept such invoices. An invoice that shows a deduction due to a 'discount' being granted would not be a reason, in itself, to reject the documents.”
In the scenario Jeremy has put forth, ISBP para. 60 must rule. UCP Article 30c. discusses an amount “tolerance” should an LC/invoice be silent. In example, you have a LC, $100.00 10 chairs CIF Incoterms 2000. The freight and ins. costs were estimated/rounded to nearest dollar so the actual invoice presented states Chairs $90.00 + OF $5.00 + I $1.00 total $96.00. Article 30c. allows this tolerance, as the amount is within 5% but prohibits it if outside the 5% tolerance. A “discount” or “rebate” is separate and distinct from a tolerance and as such ISBP paragraph 60 must be applied. Tolerance is defined as an “allowance” whereas a rebate is a “deduction or discount” and the later are not prohibited by UCP.
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HOANGTHIANHTHU_invalid
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:15 pm
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
Hi,
I would accept the invoice as complying based on ISBP para. 60.
Regards,
Duc N.H
I would accept the invoice as complying based on ISBP para. 60.
Regards,
Duc N.H
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
It seems that we won't agree on this one. Better leave at that for the time being and "suite au prochain numéro".
Daniel
Daniel
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
Hi All
to me, art 30c and para 66 are not applicable to this case, and it should be viewed under art.60 instead, so it is not a discrepancy.
Regards
Yat
[edited 6/30/2010 12:15:30 PM]
to me, art 30c and para 66 are not applicable to this case, and it should be viewed under art.60 instead, so it is not a discrepancy.
Regards
Yat
[edited 6/30/2010 12:15:30 PM]
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JudithAutié
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:20 pm
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
Sorry, but in my understanding, rules are rules and practices are practices, and altho the twain should meet, they don't always.
In such a case I would apply the rules, and not the practices, altho I agree that before a judge I don't know if he would appreciate not paying because of a discount being beyond the 5% tolerance.
Judith
In such a case I would apply the rules, and not the practices, altho I agree that before a judge I don't know if he would appreciate not paying because of a discount being beyond the 5% tolerance.
Judith
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SladjanaSkakic
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:27 pm
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
Hello!
If a full shipment has been effected and if gross value of invoice, representing value of goods shipped, is GBP 100.000,00, the invoice is in compliance with the L/C terms.
UCP600 Art 30c is not applicable as no partial shipment or drawing has been effected.
Furthermore the invoice shows a discount of GBP 10.000,00, not stated in the credit, which is acceptable according to ISBP para 60.
So, invoice showing full shipment, full amount of goods shipped as well as a discount (not stated in the credit), should be acceptable as complying.
Best regards
If a full shipment has been effected and if gross value of invoice, representing value of goods shipped, is GBP 100.000,00, the invoice is in compliance with the L/C terms.
UCP600 Art 30c is not applicable as no partial shipment or drawing has been effected.
Furthermore the invoice shows a discount of GBP 10.000,00, not stated in the credit, which is acceptable according to ISBP para 60.
So, invoice showing full shipment, full amount of goods shipped as well as a discount (not stated in the credit), should be acceptable as complying.
Best regards
sub-Art 30(c) / ISBP para 60
Depends on the credit amount
Daniel
Daniel