When we talk about partial shipment under according Article of UCP should we understand it as following:
If one of the following conditions are breached then shipment will be considered as partial:
a) mode of transport is different
b) route is not the same
c) the point of destination is not the same.
So even if the only one of the above mentioned conditions is breached then we consider shipment as partial
Under Article 42 the place for presentation of documents is the place for presentation of documents for payment. So the place where documents will be presented must the place where the documents value will be paid. As there is no other place is mentioned in the Article we can't stipulate place other than the place for presentation of documents for payment. As I understand it's practice to stipulate the place just for presentation of documents without making payment in that place.
Please send you reply to following e-mail: eldar.h@azeurotel.com
Thank you in advance
Eldar Hamidov
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
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EldarHamidov
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larryBacon
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 pm
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
The conditions you mention do not relate to partial shipment. Therefore please clarify your question. It is not clear what your question is in relation to Art. 42. Please elucidate.
Laurence A. J. Bacon
laurence_aj@hotmail.com
Laurence A. J. Bacon
laurence_aj@hotmail.com
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
The enquirer gives three conditions, each of which if violated ALONE in a shipment, that shipment is to be deemed as "partial shipments". This is incorrect.
In a multimodal transport shipment, the shipment may be made in different modes. That is not a partial shipment. So different modes of tranport ALONE does not make a shipment partial.
In timber or other commodity trade, under a charter party, a shipper may have more than one port of loading and more than one port of discharge or destination (what is known as "optional ports" in charter party practice). So a different destination ALONE may not be deemed as a partial shipment, particularly for a charter party BL.
Only where the routing/voyage is different, or under a different voyage number for the same ship, then it is deemed as a partial shipment.
I am from www.tolee.com
[edited 5/22/01 3:17:02 PM]
In a multimodal transport shipment, the shipment may be made in different modes. That is not a partial shipment. So different modes of tranport ALONE does not make a shipment partial.
In timber or other commodity trade, under a charter party, a shipper may have more than one port of loading and more than one port of discharge or destination (what is known as "optional ports" in charter party practice). So a different destination ALONE may not be deemed as a partial shipment, particularly for a charter party BL.
Only where the routing/voyage is different, or under a different voyage number for the same ship, then it is deemed as a partial shipment.
I am from www.tolee.com
[edited 5/22/01 3:17:02 PM]
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
The enquirer made his question imprecise which the respondent failed to realize. Article 40 speaks about the following conditions:
a) shipment has been made on the same means of conveyance,
b) for the same journey,
c) indicate the same destination.
As enquirer continued: "Even if the only one of the above mentioned conditions is breached then we consider shipment as partial."
This would be now correct with the exception of the Charter Party B/L where ICC in its Opinions allows different destinations. In my opinion this different treatment for Charter Party B/L should be taken into account in next revision of UCP.
Pavel Andrle
a) shipment has been made on the same means of conveyance,
b) for the same journey,
c) indicate the same destination.
As enquirer continued: "Even if the only one of the above mentioned conditions is breached then we consider shipment as partial."
This would be now correct with the exception of the Charter Party B/L where ICC in its Opinions allows different destinations. In my opinion this different treatment for Charter Party B/L should be taken into account in next revision of UCP.
Pavel Andrle
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
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Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
To make the discussion more clear we assume that:
The L/C has stipulated that partial shipments are not allowed and required a B/L to be surrendered along with other documents.
Upon checking the documents presented we found that the B/L indicated
- two on board notations one for 240 tonnes of xyz and 260 tonnes of xyz
- B/L indicates that named vessel is princess of joy
- B/L indicates that the destination is Hamburg seaport as per the L/C.
In this case there is no partial shipment.
If we have two SEPARATE B/L then again it is not partial shipment.
HOWEVER
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and same destination, then it is partial shipment.
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and different destinations, then it is partial shipment.
- If we have two TRANSPORT DOCUMENTS (B/L & AWB), then it is partial shipment. THIS IS INSANE WHO WOULD DO IT?
I hope that our friend EldarHamidove pay more attention to drafting his queries to enable others help him. You will appreciate that even when somebody takes the burden of helping you out in your endeavor for knowledge he is not spared by others. You will also appreciate that we can’t think on your behalf because we respect your independent thinking.
The L/C has stipulated that partial shipments are not allowed and required a B/L to be surrendered along with other documents.
Upon checking the documents presented we found that the B/L indicated
- two on board notations one for 240 tonnes of xyz and 260 tonnes of xyz
- B/L indicates that named vessel is princess of joy
- B/L indicates that the destination is Hamburg seaport as per the L/C.
In this case there is no partial shipment.
If we have two SEPARATE B/L then again it is not partial shipment.
HOWEVER
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and same destination, then it is partial shipment.
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and different destinations, then it is partial shipment.
- If we have two TRANSPORT DOCUMENTS (B/L & AWB), then it is partial shipment. THIS IS INSANE WHO WOULD DO IT?
I hope that our friend EldarHamidove pay more attention to drafting his queries to enable others help him. You will appreciate that even when somebody takes the burden of helping you out in your endeavor for knowledge he is not spared by others. You will also appreciate that we can’t think on your behalf because we respect your independent thinking.
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
We do not think “two Bs/L” or “one B/L and one SWB” for the same shipment with loading done in different ports would be deemed as partial shipments. For loadings in different ports of loading, the carrier represented by the master (should be master mariner in his licence) has the right to issue a separate transport document for loading in each port. This is a practical issue as the master may leave the vessel for holidays, sickness, a member of his family having serious health problems that needs his atttention, and other reasonable causes, during the long sea voyage and replaced by another master. The new master would not like to take responsibility of possible negligence made by another master.
Theoretically, a document checker has to check the facts, not counting the number of transport documents to cover the same shipment. There is also no such stipulation in the UCP to stop using more than one B/L to cover the same shipment, where different ports of loading are involved.
From http://www.tolee.com
[edited 9/1/01 4:42:11 AM]
[edited 10/28/01 12:52:22 AM]
Theoretically, a document checker has to check the facts, not counting the number of transport documents to cover the same shipment. There is also no such stipulation in the UCP to stop using more than one B/L to cover the same shipment, where different ports of loading are involved.
From http://www.tolee.com
[edited 9/1/01 4:42:11 AM]
[edited 10/28/01 12:52:22 AM]
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
Dear Mr. Lee
I do not want to be hasty in my reply to your comments because in our discussion we did not raise the issue of transshipment, therefore please clarify we you referred to it and in what context.
What you have stated is perfectly understood however my example is on partial shipment only.
I do not want to be hasty in my reply to your comments because in our discussion we did not raise the issue of transshipment, therefore please clarify we you referred to it and in what context.
What you have stated is perfectly understood however my example is on partial shipment only.
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
Sorry, Hatem, by "transshipment" we should have meant "partial shipments". Sorry for this mis-coordination between the brain and the hands on keyboard. Otherwise our comments would be meaningless.
What we are trying to say is that, for shipments from the same shipper to the same consignee, for goods loaded at different times, at different ports but on the same vessel, with the same voyage number and maybe also headed for the same destination, BUT UNDER MORE THAN ONE B/L, should NOT be deemed as partial shipments. This is only simple common sense and based on reasons explained previously. Howwever, the number of B/L issue is not dealt with in this sub Article 40 (b).
There is no provisions in the maritime rules such as the COGSA 1992 of UK & USA or the China Maritime Code (which has been appraised as the most comprehensive maritime code in the world, taking 40 years to complete) to restrict the issue of more than one B/L for shipments loaded at different ports from the same shipper to the same consignee for the same...bra bra.
I am leaving for New York tomorrow and will be back on the 7th of September. Until then good bye to every one here.
Hatem, many thanks for spotting this otherwise serious typo which has been corrected now.
From http://www.tolee.com
[edited 9/1/01 5:27:57 AM]
[edited 10/28/01 12:49:19 AM]
What we are trying to say is that, for shipments from the same shipper to the same consignee, for goods loaded at different times, at different ports but on the same vessel, with the same voyage number and maybe also headed for the same destination, BUT UNDER MORE THAN ONE B/L, should NOT be deemed as partial shipments. This is only simple common sense and based on reasons explained previously. Howwever, the number of B/L issue is not dealt with in this sub Article 40 (b).
There is no provisions in the maritime rules such as the COGSA 1992 of UK & USA or the China Maritime Code (which has been appraised as the most comprehensive maritime code in the world, taking 40 years to complete) to restrict the issue of more than one B/L for shipments loaded at different ports from the same shipper to the same consignee for the same...bra bra.
I am leaving for New York tomorrow and will be back on the 7th of September. Until then good bye to every one here.
Hatem, many thanks for spotting this otherwise serious typo which has been corrected now.
From http://www.tolee.com
[edited 9/1/01 5:27:57 AM]
[edited 10/28/01 12:49:19 AM]
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
Dear Mr. Lee
I think we are in agreement and both correct in our statements. What I have stated is :
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and same destination, then it is partial shipment.
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and different destinations, then it is partial shipment.
Therefore
· MERELY, TWO SEPARATE B/L CANNOT BE CONSIDERED AS PARTIAL SHIPMENT
· TWO NAMED VESSELS IS CONSIDERED AS PARTIAL SHIPMENT BECAUSE DIFFERENT VESSELS MEAN DIFFERENT VOYAGE
I hope we are clear to each other as we are always.
I think we are in agreement and both correct in our statements. What I have stated is :
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and same destination, then it is partial shipment.
- If we have two SEPARATE B/L with two named vessels (one princess of joy and the other princess of love) and different destinations, then it is partial shipment.
Therefore
· MERELY, TWO SEPARATE B/L CANNOT BE CONSIDERED AS PARTIAL SHIPMENT
· TWO NAMED VESSELS IS CONSIDERED AS PARTIAL SHIPMENT BECAUSE DIFFERENT VESSELS MEAN DIFFERENT VOYAGE
I hope we are clear to each other as we are always.
Partial shipment and place for presentation of documents for
Dear Hatem, your points are understood. But for clarity, you should have added "two vessels or two destinations" in your third "- if" for your opinions expressed previously. Otherwise some members like us may see it as a stand-alone condition.
We interpret "means of conveyance" in sub Article 40 (b) as "means of transport/carriage, including vessel, airplane, truck, train or inland waterway barge" and not "mode of transport such as air, sea or surface" as certain practitioners think. This misinterpretation is often a dispute area in our consultancy experience.
From us, "land transport" is not an absolutely accurate term to describe transport on "land" because inland waterway should be more "water" than "land". The all encompassing term should be "surface transport" which is more accurate and neutral.
In Incoterms we should use this term too rather than "land transport". This term is also used by the United Nations Multimodal Transport Association in Geneva of which we are a member.
Understanding what is "means of conveyance", we have no argument when we try to interpret what is partial shipment and what is not.
From http://www.tolee.com
[edited 9/1/01 4:01:02 PM]
[edited 10/28/01 12:45:24 AM]
We interpret "means of conveyance" in sub Article 40 (b) as "means of transport/carriage, including vessel, airplane, truck, train or inland waterway barge" and not "mode of transport such as air, sea or surface" as certain practitioners think. This misinterpretation is often a dispute area in our consultancy experience.
From us, "land transport" is not an absolutely accurate term to describe transport on "land" because inland waterway should be more "water" than "land". The all encompassing term should be "surface transport" which is more accurate and neutral.
In Incoterms we should use this term too rather than "land transport". This term is also used by the United Nations Multimodal Transport Association in Geneva of which we are a member.
Understanding what is "means of conveyance", we have no argument when we try to interpret what is partial shipment and what is not.
From http://www.tolee.com
[edited 9/1/01 4:01:02 PM]
[edited 10/28/01 12:45:24 AM]