L/C is opened asking to forward documents to issuing bank,and goods to be shipped by sea freight to a country other than issuing bank's country,doc.s
were received in order, issuing bank endorsed B/L and sent all doc.s to the country where goods were shipped. doc.s were lost by D.H.L,and the carrier is asking for a letter of indemnity in his favour by the issuing bank to deliver goods,should the issuing bank issue that letter to carrier? or there is another solution in this regard.secondly: can the issuing bank get D.H.L involved in this matter,and what is the D.H.L responsibilities towards losing those documents.
lost documents
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mahdikelany
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:22 pm
lost documents
We remember that there is a similar "lost document in transit" case recently published by IIBLP of USA. Please search for the DC Pro to get this case as your reference. This sounds more of a legal issue than an UCP issue.
Hence without further details of your case, it is not appropriate for us to add any comment as any deviation on the material facts may affect our opinions.
We should know our limits.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 8/24/01 10:39:14 PM]
Hence without further details of your case, it is not appropriate for us to add any comment as any deviation on the material facts may affect our opinions.
We should know our limits.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 8/24/01 10:39:14 PM]
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
lost documents
THE LOWER CASE QUOTATION IS THE ICC OPINION RELATED TO LOST DOCUMENTS IN TRANSIT. IT MIGHT SERVE AS CLUE TO YOUR PARTICULAR CASE. I AGREE WITH THE ADVICE OF MR. LEE THAT THERE MIGHT BE CERTAIN PARTICUALRS IN YOUR CASE TO BE LOOKED INTO. THE BEST THING IS TO GET A PROFESSIONAL ADVICE ON THAT.
QUOTE
"Documents lost in transit
Part 4. A credit is issued by Bank X and confirmed by Bank Y and passed on to nominated (to negotiate) + advising Bank Z. Documents are presented to Bank Z and are lost in transit to Bank Y. What is the position of confirming Bank Y in the context of comments on page 24, paragraph headed 'Primary Liability of Confirming Bank', ICC Publication No.511, and those of ICC Publication No.434, R146?
Issue 5
Analysis
When documents which conform to the terms and conditions of the credit are presented to the nominated bank within the validity of the credit, and, where appropriate, the UCP 500 sub-Article 43(a) period of time, the definite undertaking of both the issuing bank and the confirming bank is evoked. As soon as the beneficiary has duly fulfilled what he was requested to do, i.e. timely presentation of conforming documents to the bank nominated in the credit, he is no longer responsible for any subsequent loss of the documents.
In the event that the documents are forwarded by the nominated bank to the confirming bank, or to a party designated by the confirming bank, in order to obtain payment under the confirming bank's undertaking, and the documents are lost in transit, the risk of having to pay without receiving the documents passes to the confirming bank, provided that any instructions from the issuing bank or confirming bank with regard to the manner in which the documents have to be forwarded have been followed.
Since the confirming bank enters into an obligation upon the authorisation or request of the issuing bank, and the issuing bank acts at the request and on the instructions of the applicant, the risks pass subsequently from the confirming bank to the issuing bank, and from the issuing bank to the applicant. In this context, attention is also drawn to UCP 500 Article 16, which states that "Banks assume no liability or responsibility for the consequences arising out of ... loss in transit of any ... document(s)...".
Conclusion
The confirming bank is obligated to honour its definite undertaking under the credit even if documents are lost in transit between the nominated bank and the confirming bank.
R207 - UCP500 Sub-Articles 10(c), 43(a) and Article 48
Question 4
Passing of risk - What moment in the documentary process may be defined as the moment of passing of the risk involved in the transmission of documents?
Having ICC clarification of the item within UCP 400 (ICC documents 470/444,452,477, 481,486,495), we are enquiring now for the same within UCP 500 and should highly appreciate your firm response. We would be happy to receive your comments to the following as well.
If the loss of the documents in transit results from a mere courier company fault and Article 16 is applicable, is the issuing bank still bound to pay at sight or on the maturity date/accept/pay without recourse on the basis that no compliant documents were received at its counters? Is the issuing bank obliged to take up duplicate documents instead of the lost originals? In case it cannot obtain payment from the applicant due to non-availability of the original documents, which the credit required, what is your opinion of the best way to proceed?
Question 4
Article 16 of the UCP offers the same protection to that referred to in your question under UCP 400. If the bank which sends conforming documents to the issuing bank is a nominated bank, then the issuing bank is liable to pay if documents are lost in transit. This would be subject to the documents being sent in the manner prescribed in the credit, i.e. where the credit states registered mail, the documents are to be sent by that means and not by courier. The risk of sending the documents by a method not requested by the credit rests with the nominated bank and not the beneficiary.
UNQUOTE
[edited 8/25/01 7:49:11 AM]
QUOTE
"Documents lost in transit
Part 4. A credit is issued by Bank X and confirmed by Bank Y and passed on to nominated (to negotiate) + advising Bank Z. Documents are presented to Bank Z and are lost in transit to Bank Y. What is the position of confirming Bank Y in the context of comments on page 24, paragraph headed 'Primary Liability of Confirming Bank', ICC Publication No.511, and those of ICC Publication No.434, R146?
Issue 5
Analysis
When documents which conform to the terms and conditions of the credit are presented to the nominated bank within the validity of the credit, and, where appropriate, the UCP 500 sub-Article 43(a) period of time, the definite undertaking of both the issuing bank and the confirming bank is evoked. As soon as the beneficiary has duly fulfilled what he was requested to do, i.e. timely presentation of conforming documents to the bank nominated in the credit, he is no longer responsible for any subsequent loss of the documents.
In the event that the documents are forwarded by the nominated bank to the confirming bank, or to a party designated by the confirming bank, in order to obtain payment under the confirming bank's undertaking, and the documents are lost in transit, the risk of having to pay without receiving the documents passes to the confirming bank, provided that any instructions from the issuing bank or confirming bank with regard to the manner in which the documents have to be forwarded have been followed.
Since the confirming bank enters into an obligation upon the authorisation or request of the issuing bank, and the issuing bank acts at the request and on the instructions of the applicant, the risks pass subsequently from the confirming bank to the issuing bank, and from the issuing bank to the applicant. In this context, attention is also drawn to UCP 500 Article 16, which states that "Banks assume no liability or responsibility for the consequences arising out of ... loss in transit of any ... document(s)...".
Conclusion
The confirming bank is obligated to honour its definite undertaking under the credit even if documents are lost in transit between the nominated bank and the confirming bank.
R207 - UCP500 Sub-Articles 10(c), 43(a) and Article 48
Question 4
Passing of risk - What moment in the documentary process may be defined as the moment of passing of the risk involved in the transmission of documents?
Having ICC clarification of the item within UCP 400 (ICC documents 470/444,452,477, 481,486,495), we are enquiring now for the same within UCP 500 and should highly appreciate your firm response. We would be happy to receive your comments to the following as well.
If the loss of the documents in transit results from a mere courier company fault and Article 16 is applicable, is the issuing bank still bound to pay at sight or on the maturity date/accept/pay without recourse on the basis that no compliant documents were received at its counters? Is the issuing bank obliged to take up duplicate documents instead of the lost originals? In case it cannot obtain payment from the applicant due to non-availability of the original documents, which the credit required, what is your opinion of the best way to proceed?
Question 4
Article 16 of the UCP offers the same protection to that referred to in your question under UCP 400. If the bank which sends conforming documents to the issuing bank is a nominated bank, then the issuing bank is liable to pay if documents are lost in transit. This would be subject to the documents being sent in the manner prescribed in the credit, i.e. where the credit states registered mail, the documents are to be sent by that means and not by courier. The risk of sending the documents by a method not requested by the credit rests with the nominated bank and not the beneficiary.
UNQUOTE
[edited 8/25/01 7:49:11 AM]
lost documents
Dear Hatem
You are a man of golden heart, taking the troubles of searching, typing and proof-reading the rather lengthy opinions of the ICC Banking Commission from the DC Pro. We can realise that this should take a lot of your valuable time, which we wish we could afford, if we were not a self-employed, having to place balance to our time for finding our rice and noodles.
The best we can do is to provide hints, clues and caution areas, sharing our experience where there is such a need.
We propose that we should establish an etiquette in the DC Pro to encourage more participation. Those who have done a lot to an enquirer, such as in this case, should have deserved a simple thank you message from the enquirer.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 8/25/01 3:32:56 PM]
You are a man of golden heart, taking the troubles of searching, typing and proof-reading the rather lengthy opinions of the ICC Banking Commission from the DC Pro. We can realise that this should take a lot of your valuable time, which we wish we could afford, if we were not a self-employed, having to place balance to our time for finding our rice and noodles.
The best we can do is to provide hints, clues and caution areas, sharing our experience where there is such a need.
We propose that we should establish an etiquette in the DC Pro to encourage more participation. Those who have done a lot to an enquirer, such as in this case, should have deserved a simple thank you message from the enquirer.
We are from http://www.tolee.com
[edited 8/25/01 3:32:56 PM]
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hatemshehab
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:19 pm
lost documents
It seems it goes with the English proverb “The leopard cannot change its spots”
We do things without expectations, however, it is very encouraging to see people appreciate what you do and certainly it gives you a sense of satisfaction and self-esteem.
Equally speaking your heart is golden too; as “One cannot get blood (or water) from a stone” He has to be of great heart.
We do things without expectations, however, it is very encouraging to see people appreciate what you do and certainly it gives you a sense of satisfaction and self-esteem.
Equally speaking your heart is golden too; as “One cannot get blood (or water) from a stone” He has to be of great heart.
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mahdikelany
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:22 pm
lost documents
i would like to express here that i,m so grateful for both mr. tolee and mr. hatem as well for their kind efforts towards replying to my inquiry, and would like to tell also that dc pro is the best area where to find reputable
dc pro who co operate to the best of what they had.
dc pro who co operate to the best of what they had.